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I hit my slave with clothespins applied to his fat body and small dick. Right, right, right. I talk about that as the logic of homosexual necessity in the book and that comes up a lot, this claim that, well, men have to do this for X or Y reason.

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The photographic evidence of an elephant walk in the book is really important, I think. You view it as a way of performing heterosexuality, even if the content looks gay from the outside? My favorite examples of that were the casual encounters ads from Craigslist you included in the book. Hot masculine white dude here … looking for another hot white dude to come by my place, and work out a hot load side by side. Straight Porn only. Prefer str8, surfer, etc.

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A lot of these ads, which are, after all, written by ostensibly straight men seeking out homosexual contact, are couched in this hyperhetero language. I think these are really gay men who are posing as straight men.

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So this, I think, at least culturally, is quite distinct from the tradition of gay men being interested in straight-acting gay men. And it sounds like all things being equal, white guys have a lot more flexibility to try to pull this off than black men do. I think a lot of people who read the blurb, but not the actual book, have been confused about why the book was focused on white men, and I made that choice very consciously.

Another rationale for homosexual activity among men was this idea of men turning to sex with men because there were fewer obligations — no pressure, no stress, no romance.

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Can you just talk about that for a minute? Yeah, well, that is an argument that, again, psychologists and psychobiologists have commonly made and those kinds of arguments, I think, trickle down into the broader culture so that men themselves know which claims have legitimacy. Especially reading the last part where you talked about your own history, it seems like you almost feel like white men are missing out on something — missing out on all the stuff they could feel safer exploring in the way women do. Is that true?